DIS 2, coils and wires [Archive] (2024)

RJW

11th January 2004, 08:32

Any suggestions on where to get a good deal on a DIS 2?

$339 at Jeg's There is also a DIS 2 HO that is either just out or soon to be available

How about coils?

Anyone ever use these?

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2989&prmenbr=361

How about wires?

Anyone ever use these?

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1964&prmenbr=361

Any recomendations on what and where to get at a decent price, please chime in.

Do I need anything else? Interface modules?

Big Gulp is panhandling right now :sad:

[ 11. January 2004, 07:51: Message edited by: RJW ]

me

11th January 2004, 09:15

I just bought some ARP head/ main studs on Ebay for way cheap. The Head studs were $87.00/$5.00 shipping. They sell everything and I got the studs in three days. They are out of Florida actually, may be right next door!
I should have looked up before I started this message but will send it to you soon.

Later..................Larry

Chris Ludwig

11th January 2004, 10:39

Glad we're having the same problems! Makes me feel better that someone else is banging their head against a wall. ;)

I've priced the DIS and Jeg's and Summit can't be beat. Summit usually beats Jeg's price by a penny or two on most stuff and seems to ship quicker and just is easier to deal with IMO.

I'm curious about custom wires too. Where does one find the long OHC boots? Are they failry generic from one make to another? If we're going to use a coil with a different end we'll need custom wires and I imagine something of a different legnth if mounting becomes and issue. We're do the guys that run Electromotive setups on the fire wall get their wires?

I like these two coils. My concern at that point is finding a pinout from the two application so that I know how to wire it.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8229

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8241

The second one looks like it should be pretty compact and maybe fit in the stock location?

Chris

Dynra Rockets

11th January 2004, 10:45

I got my MSD DIS used off ebay. Saved 50% off new. Works fine.

Randy

dv/dt

11th January 2004, 11:40

Originally posted by Chris Ludwig:
... I'm curious about custom wires too. Where does one find the long OHC boots? Are they failry generic from one make to another? If we're going to use a coil with a different end we'll need custom wires and I imagine something of a different legnth if mounting becomes and issue. We're do the guys that run Electromotive setups on the fire wall get their wires?

...Magnecor makes custom sets with the correct ends. That is what Shiv ships with the TEC2/3's.

HTH,
Jon

RJW

11th January 2004, 12:33

Originally posted by Chris Ludwig:
Glad we're having the same problems! Makes me feel better that someone else is banging their head against a wall. ;)

I've priced the DIS and Jeg's and Summit can't be beat. Summit usually beats Jeg's price by a penny or two on most stuff and seems to ship quicker and just is easier to deal with IMO.

I'm curious about custom wires too. Where does one find the long OHC boots? Are they failry generic from one make to another? If we're going to use a coil with a different end we'll need custom wires and I imagine something of a different legnth if mounting becomes and issue. We're do the guys that run Electromotive setups on the fire wall get their wires?

I like these two coils. My concern at that point is finding a pinout from the two application so that I know how to wire it.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8229

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8241

The second one looks like it should be pretty compact and maybe fit in the stock location?

Chris I am not sure that those coils would work unless you are running multipoint

Do they fire all pluga at once?

What charge time are you yp to?

I haven't gone past 3 ms

I scoped the stock ecu and haltech.

If I could find someone to interpret the results, it is possible that a simple resistor or circuit could lower the Haltech spike down to the level of the stock ecu.

This could allow for more charge time,

Add it up. Dis 2, coil(s), wires - $500 to $600

Jeg's told me that I NEED the modules as well $29 each.

Obviously the MSD solution would be much better, but for now $$$ is LOW

Mack

11th January 2004, 12:43

Dynra Rockets

11th January 2004, 13:03

Originally posted by RJW:

Jeg's told me that I NEED the modules as well $29 each.

I didn't use the modules with my MSD-DIS 1.6 ignition set-up. I got out for under $200.

Chris Ludwig

11th January 2004, 13:23

The two I posted are like the stock Miata setup just all contained in one case. Meaning they are a dual coil and fire two posts at once in a waste spark configuration. So you'll still be able to use sequential injection. I'm pretty sure the Ford setup does not contain an ignitor. Not sure on the Mitsu/Dodge coil. Can the DIS be wired to a coil/ignitor combination like the stock Miata coils?

I've upped the charge time to 3.0ms and get bad breakup at about 5-6k and I haven't put the boost to it yet either. I had a #5 plug in the car at first in anticipation of boost and then stepped back to #7 with no change.

RJW

11th January 2004, 13:24

Originally posted by RandyS:
Originally posted by RJW:

Jeg's told me that I NEED the modules as well $29 each.

I didn't use the modules with my MSD-DIS 1.6 ignition set-up. I got out for under $200. You have the 1.6 coils like Skyler?

THe 00 and 01 coils have igniter included. Do the 1.6's?

Chris Ludwig

11th January 2004, 13:26

RJW

11th January 2004, 13:28

Originally posted by Chris Ludwig:
The two I posted are like the stock Miata setup just all contained in one case. Meaning they are a dual coil and fire two posts at once in a waste spark configuration. So you'll still be able to use sequential injection. I'm pretty sure the Ford setup does not contain an ignitor. Not sure on the Mitsu/Dodge coil. Can the DIS be wired to a coil/ignitor combination like the stock Miata coils?

I've upped the charge time to 3.0ms and get bad breakup at about 5-6k and I haven't put the boost to it yet either. I had a #5 plug in the car at first in anticipation of boost and then stepped back to #7 with no change. That's strange, because I ran NA for quite a while, rich and with 1.0ms charge time

Only when I redid the engine AND added the SC, did it go to hell in a handbag.

I'm using number 6 plugs at the moment. When you say stepped back, my '00 and '01 engines called for #5's stock.

The 6 and 7's are colder.

RJW

11th January 2004, 13:31

Originally posted by Chris Ludwig:
Originally posted by Mack:
Can't the Haltech fire big, fat GM coils like the TEC-2/3? If it can, I would go that route. And that's a good question. Why do we need the DIS to interpret the Haltech's signal? It should be able to do what we're trying to make it do. We need igniter and coil (at least on the 00 and 01.

I don't think that you can hook up straight from the Haltech to the coil.

I believe that the DIS eliminates the need for an igniter and it is CD which will burn the rich mixtures that we need at high boost.

Where is Markp when we need him? ;)

markp

11th January 2004, 14:21

Originally posted by RJW:
Originally posted by Chris Ludwig:
Originally posted by Mack:
Can't the Haltech fire big, fat GM coils like the TEC-2/3? If it can, I would go that route. And that's a good question. Why do we need the DIS to interpret the Haltech's signal? It should be able to do what we're trying to make it do. We need igniter and coil (at least on the 00 and 01.

I don't think that you can hook up straight from the Haltech to the coil.

I believe that the DIS eliminates the need for an igniter and it is CD which will burn the rich mixtures that we need at high boost.

Where is Markp when we need him? ;) Right here...

markp

11th January 2004, 14:26

Here is the deal, the DIS-2 becomes your ignitor.

Haltech connects directly to the DIS-2.
DIS-2 connects to the coil interface modules, why? because it makes for a nice clean installation... the coil interface modules are just plastic stands for our use.
Call up rockauto.com and get 2 DR39 coil packs from standard motor parts... same as TEC-II coils. $30 or so each. These coils packs are available EVERYWHERE, so you can get them at your local carquest or whatever.

Change your haltech to constant duty, trigger on rising. You should be good to go.

Mark

markp

11th January 2004, 14:28

markp

11th January 2004, 14:32

Originally posted by RJW:
Add it up. Dis 2, coil(s), wires - $500 to $600
Let's look at the math again here. $450 is closer to reality.

I paid $298 for a DIS 2.
$64.00 for 2 coils
$50.00 for 2 CIM's
$50.00 for a custom wiring harness for a V8 with plug connectors that were "close enough" to what the Miata used... not quite water tight but close.
(Accell 8.8 mm stuff with 8.5 mm MSD wires.)

bp 1.8

11th January 2004, 14:55

Ryan Vetter

11th January 2004, 15:28

Originally posted by markp:
Originally posted by RJW:
Add it up. Dis 2, coil(s), wires - $500 to $600
Let's look at the math again here. $450 is closer to reality.

I paid $298 for a DIS 2.
$64.00 for 2 coils
$50.00 for 2 CIM's
$50.00 for a custom wiring harness for a V8 with plug connectors that were "close enough" to what the Miata used... not quite water tight but close.
(Accell 8.8 mm stuff with 8.5 mm MSD wires.) I used this setup on my Haltech turbo car, with the exception that I was able to mount my coils right where the stock coils install, and I removed the end of my Magnacore 8mm (or 8.5mm?)wires and changed the boot to GM style so they would clip onto the GM coil packs.

It is kinda hard to see but look at page 5, you can see the coils sitting on their side, with the terminal posts facing the front of the car.

http://miata.cardomain.com/memberpage/351451/5

If you want close up pics, let me know and I will borrow a digital to take some closeup pics.
Ryan

Chris Ludwig

11th January 2004, 15:46

Originally posted by RJW:
That's strange, because I ran NA for quite a while, rich and with 1.0ms charge time

Only when I redid the engine AND added the SC, did it go to hell in a handbag.

I'm using number 6 plugs at the moment. When you say stepped back, my '00 and '01 engines called for #5's stock.

The 6 and 7's are colder. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I installed a 7 because I thought I'd go right to boost but then decided to wire the wastegate open and just work on getting the car running before stepping into the expensive realm of uncertainty. I fired the car for the first time with the 7s still installed and that's when I had the breakup at high RPM. I stepped back to the stock 5s and still have the problem. Now I believe I've blown another coil because I'm down to fire only on the 2-3 cylinders. So much for 3.0ms charge time.

DIS, here I come.

topher

11th January 2004, 16:59

I always wondered why some bright people ran
richer than 12 to 1. Then I found this article.
I think it has more than one grain of truth.

page 7 of
www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/ (http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/)

Engine developers run very cold spark plugs to avoid the risk of getting into pre-ignition during engine mapping of air/fuel and spark advance, Production engine calibration requires that we have much hotter spark plugs for cold startability and fouling resistance. To avoid pre-ignition we then compensate by making sure the fuel/air calibration is rich enough to keep the spark plugs cool at high loads and at high temperatures, so that they don't induce pre-ignition.

Consider the Northstar engine. If you do a full throttle 0-60 blast, the engine will likely run up to 6000 RPM at a 11.5:1 or 12:1 air fuel ratio. But under sustained load, at about 20 seconds, that air fuel ratio is richened up by the PCM to about 10:1. That is done to keep the spark plugs cool, as well as the piston crowns cool. That richness is necessary if you are running under continuous WOT load. A slight penalty in horsepower and fuel economy is the result. To get the maximum acceleration out of the engine, you can actually lean it out, but under full load, it has to go back to rich. Higher specific output engines are much more sensitive to pre-ignition damage because they are turning more RPM, they are generating a lot more heat and they are burning more fuel. Plugs have a tendency to get hot at that high specific output and reaction time to damage is minimal.

bp 1.8

11th January 2004, 17:29

topher

11th January 2004, 18:07

That point is very true for the first start up
with new plugs.

How easy will it be to start your car the day
after that cold plug loaded up?

topher

12th January 2004, 08:55

porterdog

12th January 2004, 13:16

RJW

12th January 2004, 16:23